sigma wrote:I'm surprised that you were not interested in such a way [copies of music/movies/etc.] to pay for your work.
Why does this surprise you?
Developers respect other developers (including musicians and actors and others who create works for a living). It is a matter of principle to avoid obtaining another's work without paying them.
For example, I am a software developer. It would be a simple act to get copies of all the games/music/movies I want without paying for it, but I will not do that, because I respect other creators, and I know what it means to be paid for my work.
This is not my whim. It is the system. I would not have had the opportunity to play in the Descent at all if it were not for pirated copies and free
mutual help. Principled people very quickly find themselves in prison in Russia. It is a harsh reality. Okay, forget about it.
I'm surprised that you were not interested in such a way [copies of music/movies/etc.] to pay for your work.
Why does this surprise you?
Developers respect other developers (including musicians and actors and others who create works for a living). It is a matter of principle to avoid obtaining another's work without paying them.
For example, I am a software developer. It would be a simple act to get copies of all the games/music/movies I want without paying for it, but I will not do that, because I respect other creators, and I know what it means to be paid for my work.
]]>Scott wrote:It's not fair to me, the producer, when you benefit from my work without giving anything in return.
Well why "without giving anything in return"? If you give me the opportunity to play a "Talon" for free, and if I like this game, then I can give you a few terabytes of good music, movies in high quality, all computer games that are at my disposal, free of charge. Or a link to download for free. Just tell me what you need. In a personal message. I'll try to find it for you.
I'm surprised that you were not interested in such a way to pay for your work. Given that many fans of Descent in Russia do not use the Internet for remittances. Do not you want as payment to get the latest new video games, movies and music for free? And more? In addition, if there was free dissemination of "Talon" on the territory of Russia, "Talon" may gain popularity among fans of Descent. At least people will know and discuss the "Talon" on the forums. If the game will is successful, you do not even have to spend money on advertising. If will the next successful continuation or modification of the "Talon" for Russian gamers "Talon" already will not be an empty shell. A lot of Russian gamers now pay for a good games through online payments. Just Descent fans of such advanced gamers are not very many. But if there was free distribution of the first version of "Talon", Descent can gain more fans in Russia.
]]>It's not fair to me, the producer, when you benefit from my work without giving anything in return.
Well why "without giving anything in return"? If you give me the opportunity to play a "Talon" for free, and if I like this game, then I can give you a few terabytes of good music, movies in high quality, all computer games that are at my disposal, free of charge. Or a link to download for free. Just tell me what you need. In a personal message. I'll try to find it for you.
]]>I am having such a blast with the BETA that I will gladly pay for it now. 8-}
]]>sigma wrote:PS : if you are able to understand something of my explanation, I will be surprised. Like the fact that you have not deleted the post about piracy.
I do understand, and I thank you for explaining it. It is an unfortunate situation. I see how it feels justifiable. It is very human to get what you want when you can't see a cost to anyone. It is very human to feel justified in taking what you want, even when there is a cost to someone, when you feel that you are being denied that which you want. The path in our mind from "I want that" to "I deserve to have that" is very short indeed. It makes sense. When you see something that you want, but through no fault of your own you do not have proper access to, it makes sense that you feel justified in acquiring it by other means. I understand, and I sympathize; but it doesn't make it right. It doesn't make it fair. It's not right because there is a cost to me, even though it's difficult to see. Technically I don't loose anything if you copy Talon illegally, because it's not a physical product. I have no fewer "copies" than I did before. But there is a cost to me when my product becomes freely available to an international audience, because there is a carry-over effect. Humans being humans, some of them will take advantage of the "free" version, because it is there, because they can, even if they could have purchased it. And even if you couldn't have purchased it, it's still not fair. It's not fair to me, the producer, when you benefit from my work without giving anything in return. And it's not fair to others who do right in supporting me that you get the same thing for free. I DO want everybody to have access to Talon, of course I do, I like sharing as much as anyone, but we cannot always have what we want. I simply can't afford to spend any more time building Talon if I'm just giving it away. I am looking into solutions, I am considering various free-to-play models and such, but being a small developer with very limited resources, there is only so much I can do.
The truth is, there is no way I can prevent piracy, and I won't waste time, nor inconvenience my legit customers by trying. Talon will be released DRM-free, and whatever happens, happens. I just have to hope that those who can buy, will buy, and that that will be enough to keep me in business.
I understand you. I am very pleased willing to pay for work of developers. Especially, for a huge fan of the work of descent. But, in order to pay you for your work through PayPal, for example, $ 30, I will have to spend 60 dollars on it. Furthermore In this case, it is will only one single online payment, after which the card can be thrown away.
]]>PS : if you are able to understand something of my explanation, I will be surprised. Like the fact that you have not deleted the post about piracy.
I do understand, and I thank you for explaining it. It is an unfortunate situation. I see how it feels justifiable. It is very human to get what you want when you can't see a cost to anyone. It is very human to feel justified in taking what you want, even when there is a cost to someone, when you feel that you are being denied that which you want. The path in our mind from "I want that" to "I deserve to have that" is very short indeed. It makes sense. When you see something that you want, but through no fault of your own you do not have proper access to, it makes sense that you feel justified in acquiring it by other means. I understand, and I sympathize; but it doesn't make it right. It doesn't make it fair. It's not right because there is a cost to me, even though it's difficult to see. Technically I don't loose anything if you copy Talon illegally, because it's not a physical product. I have no fewer "copies" than I did before. But there is a cost to me when my product becomes freely available to an international audience, because there is a carry-over effect. Humans being humans, some of them will take advantage of the "free" version, because it is there, because they can, even if they could have purchased it. And even if you couldn't have purchased it, it's still not fair. It's not fair to me, the producer, when you benefit from my work without giving anything in return. And it's not fair to others who do right in supporting me that you get the same thing for free. I DO want everybody to have access to Talon, of course I do, I like sharing as much as anyone, but we cannot always have what we want. I simply can't afford to spend any more time building Talon if I'm just giving it away. I am looking into solutions, I am considering various free-to-play models and such, but being a small developer with very limited resources, there is only so much I can do.
The truth is, there is no way I can prevent piracy, and I won't waste time, nor inconvenience my legit customers by trying. Talon will be released DRM-free, and whatever happens, happens. I just have to hope that those who can buy, will buy, and that that will be enough to keep me in business.
]]>edit: I am not saying encourage the Russians for hacking your game, all I am saying is if it's inevitable, set up a system so that you can receive compensation in some way shape or form so you don't get completely screwed over by Russian pirates. I think donations would be the best approach so that way you can see how much they are comfortable with giving money to a indie dev for.providing such an awesome game.
]]>why?
Because, despite the fact that the electronic payment system in Russia is actively developing, however, now the vast majority of people are paying for goods and services with cash. That is, if the " Talon " , for example, here will be sold in stores , it will buy even for 1000 roubles. But he has almost no chance that people will buy an electronic version of the game on the Internet , even for 100 roubles.
In addition, the market for legal distribution of media content and computer games in Russia is very criminal industry. There are a huge number of fakes . However, the common people have long found a way out of this situation. For example, if someone is can to acquire overseas licensed computer game, or music, or film of good quality , then this person is sure to share for your friends that are absolutely free, in spite of the mafia and the state. And so on up the chain . Good and worthy things get spread among the people for free . It's like a mutual assistance . It is a sign of good taste. It is the help of friends to friends. It's tradition .
Absolutely all Russian fans were able to become fans of Descent Descent only thanks to the free assistance of friends. Or by Russian pirates. Neither do I.
So anyone here who hacks into the game and puts them all within easy access in RuNet, it is rather a goodie than negative. So now the reality is that despite the fact that most Russian gamers are ready to buy the game at the store, but they would rather not play it at all, if they can not play it for free.
PS : if you are able to understand something of my explanation, I will be surprised. Like the fact that you have not deleted the post about piracy.
So it's time to start saving some money for Talon!
]]>Well, at least from my side, be sure I will be buying the game.
Although I'm sometimes a bit broken, it seems it won't be too expensive, so won't be too hard to get the money for it by the time of release.
We're quite broke too, so we appreciate your future support.
You will be accepting PayPal payments, right?
Yes, we will.
]]>However, I need to to check at my local bank if i'm able to put funds on my PayPal account first.
You will be accepting PayPal payments, right?
]]>So far, he is the only one to publicly say he won't pay for it. Have there been people telling you this in public?
No, when I said "you and so many others", I was referring to sigma's implication that [many] Russians intended to share their "free" version:
this game will be cracked Russian pirates and laid out for all freely available in Russia
How true that actually is, I have no idea; but I'm treating it as if it is for the sake of argument.
Sorry for the confusion.
And I want to make sure you know, Blarget, that we appreciate your support. You are making a genuine effort to contribute, and I thank you.
]]>Either way, I will definitely be paying for this when I get the chance. For now I can only pay you in bug testing and spreading of word.
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