Talon Game

Refractory Studios

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Version 1.2 released; new game mode, new map, misc improvements

#1 2013-09-18 22:52:30

Blarget2
Beta Tester
Registered: 2013-08-14
Posts: 25

billing model?

Will this game stay free? Do you plan on selling it? I am very curious.

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#2 2013-09-19 02:27:51

Overseer
Refractory Studios
From: Near Scott
Registered: 2013-08-16
Posts: 20

Re: billing model?

Hi Blarget. I haven't introduced myself previously on this forum, but I'm Scott's... let's say associate.

To answer your question, the game is not free - you, and several others, have received the current version of the game as a part of a limited beta test, meant to identify potential issues so that they could be corrected. Since Scott is such a perfectionist the version is almost bug-free and should not require much changes, but there are some fixes that have been made already based on the comments, and there will probably be more, plus the release version should (hopefully) have some appropriate background music (we're still trying to figure out that part). That release version will be initially sold at an "early adopter" price (probably around $10), due to the small number of maps currently offered. Depending on how that goes, we can hopefully afford to add bigger, better maps, which will be offered for free for those who already own the game but then would also be bundled with the early version to create a more substantial version that would cost a bit more (probably at the $15-$20 range). The Dream, so to speak, is to turn this game into a business, have it be the first of a series, with Scott envisioning not only a Talon 2 (with better graphics, a single-player campaign, more game modes and a better map editor), but also an MMO space combat game with RPG elements, and a turn-based strategy game with 6DoF combat. For now, though, it's mostly just hoping that the early release does well enough, because otherwise none of that can happen...


Meow.

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#3 2013-09-19 07:07:04

Blarget2
Beta Tester
Registered: 2013-08-14
Posts: 25

Re: billing model?

Thanks for the quick response. I am assuming the limited beta testers will still have to buy the game. I am fine with this. When I get the chance, I will definitely be buying this game.

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#4 2013-09-19 18:29:13

sigma
Rookie Member
From: Moscow, Russia
Registered: 2013-08-25
Posts: 10

Re: billing model?

if the game is not going to be free, I can not play it. This specificity of Russia. But if this game will be cracked Russian pirates and laid out for all freely available in Russia, it would mean that the game was a success. And it will definitely need to play.

Last edited by sigma (2013-09-19 18:30:52)

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#5 2013-09-19 19:29:36

Enzo03
Beta Tester
Registered: 2013-09-17
Posts: 16

Re: billing model?

O_o I guess that's why there's so many Russian crackers then?

I don't think that kind of talk is safe here though.

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#6 2013-09-19 20:22:02

Overseer
Refractory Studios
From: Near Scott
Registered: 2013-08-16
Posts: 20

Re: billing model?

Sigh... There's a speech made by pretty much every indie developer out there, about how they spend all that time and effort creating a product, something that would otherwise not exist, but since software is not a tangible physical product it's so much easier for people to feel like getting it for free is entirely legitimate (also the fact that all the investment is done upfront, rather than requiring crude materials for the production of each unit). That's why all the big companies out there implement all those DRMs, which everybody (including us) hates.
In ay case, we realize that things that are not free will be accessible to fewer people than things that are free, but that's the case with every product out there... We are quite concerned about pricing the game at a rate which is both fair and affordable for as many people as possible, but there will always be a cutoff point, and we realize that we are foregoing anybody who can not afford whatever rate we decide on.


Meow.

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#7 2013-09-19 20:57:13

Scott
Refractory Studios
Registered: 2012-08-07
Posts: 454
Website

Re: billing model?

I guess it's my turn to make that speech.

sigma wrote:

if the game is not going to be free, I can not play it. This specificity of Russia. But if this game will be cracked Russian pirates and laid out for all freely available in Russia, it would mean that the game was a success. And it will definitely need to play.

I am sorry to hear that. I have invested a lot in the development of Talon. I believe it is reasonable to ask for something in compensation for they years of time and effort I put into building this game. I am not wealthy, I do not have investors, this is not a big company, so it hurts me, personally, when people decide not to contribute.

Enzo is right, in that endorsing piracy is a violation of forum rules, but I am going to let it go this time, because this is a discussion worth having. And because I am curious. I want to ask, why? Because I don't understand. Are Russians prohibited from making online purchases? Does your government not allow it? Is it just a cultural thing? A sense of entitlement produced by a system that provides things to the people, without their awareness of what work was done to provide them?

Either way, it is not fair to me, because I am not supported by the Russian government. I live in the US, where, for better or worse, nothing comes free. I have to pay for my car, I have to pay to keep my car, I have to pay for medical services, I have to pay for every meal I eat. It's just the way it is. If I can't, I don't get to eat.

Don't get me wrong, I want you to be able to play Talon. And you won't even have to bother cracking it, because Talon is completely DRM-free. But it is hurtful to hear that you and so many others do not intend to compensate me for it. It does feel as though you are taking advantage of me, and I'd just like to know: why?

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#8 2013-09-19 22:28:18

Overseer
Refractory Studios
From: Near Scott
Registered: 2013-08-16
Posts: 20

Re: billing model?

I should probably add that there will be a free demo of the game available, though we're still figuring out the details.


Meow.

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#9 2013-09-19 22:28:50

Blarget2
Beta Tester
Registered: 2013-08-14
Posts: 25

Re: billing model?

So far, he is the only one to publicly say he won't pay for it. Have there been people telling you this in public?

Either way, I will definitely be paying for this when I get the chance. For now I can only pay you in bug testing and spreading of word.

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#10 2013-09-19 22:41:11

Scott
Refractory Studios
Registered: 2012-08-07
Posts: 454
Website

Re: billing model?

Blarget2 wrote:

So far, he is the only one to publicly say he won't pay for it. Have there been people telling you this in public?

No, when I said "you and so many others", I was referring to sigma's implication that [many] Russians intended to share their "free" version:

this game will be cracked Russian pirates and laid out for all freely available in Russia

How true that actually is, I have no idea; but I'm treating it as if it is for the sake of argument.

Sorry for the confusion.

And I want to make sure you know, Blarget, that we appreciate your support. You are making a genuine effort to contribute, and I thank you.

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#11 2013-09-19 23:36:27

Blarget2
Beta Tester
Registered: 2013-08-14
Posts: 25

Re: billing model?

You are welcome.

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#12 2013-09-20 06:42:29

Pumo
Pumin Mining Corp. CEO
From: Here :)
Registered: 2013-08-16
Posts: 18
Website

Re: billing model?

Well, at least from my side, be sure I will be buying the game.
Although I'm sometimes a bit broken, it seems it won't be too expensive, so won't be too hard to get the money for it by the time of release. smile


However, I need to to check at my local bank if i'm able to put funds on my PayPal account first. tongue

You will be accepting PayPal payments, right?

Last edited by Pumo (2013-09-20 06:44:10)


[Pumo software main website] - Pumo Mines current progress: 56%

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#13 2013-09-20 07:06:30

Overseer
Refractory Studios
From: Near Scott
Registered: 2013-08-16
Posts: 20

Re: billing model?

Pumo wrote:

Well, at least from my side, be sure I will be buying the game.
Although I'm sometimes a bit broken, it seems it won't be too expensive, so won't be too hard to get the money for it by the time of release. smile

We're quite broke too, so we appreciate your future support. smile

Pumo wrote:

You will be accepting PayPal payments, right?

Yes, we will.


Meow.

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#14 2013-09-20 07:22:48

Pumo
Pumin Mining Corp. CEO
From: Here :)
Registered: 2013-08-16
Posts: 18
Website

Re: billing model?

Great, good to see you will be using PayPal.

So it's time to start saving some money for Talon! big_smile


[Pumo software main website] - Pumo Mines current progress: 56%

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#15 2013-09-20 14:57:48

sigma
Rookie Member
From: Moscow, Russia
Registered: 2013-08-25
Posts: 10

Re: billing model?

Scott wrote:

why?

Because, despite the fact that the electronic payment system in Russia is actively developing, however, now the vast majority of people are paying for goods and services with cash. That is, if the " Talon " , for example, here will be sold in stores , it will buy even for 1000 roubles. But he has almost no chance that people will buy an electronic version of the game on the Internet , even for 100 roubles.
In addition, the market for legal distribution of media content and computer games in Russia is very criminal industry. There are a huge number of fakes . However, the common people have long found a way out of this situation. For example, if someone is can to acquire overseas licensed computer game, or music, or film of good quality , then this person is sure to share for your friends that are absolutely free, in spite of the mafia and the state. And so on up the chain . Good and worthy things get spread among the people for free . It's like a mutual assistance . It is a sign of good taste. It is the help of friends to friends. It's tradition .
Absolutely all Russian fans were able to become fans of Descent Descent only thanks to the free assistance of friends. Or by Russian pirates. Neither do I.
So anyone here who hacks into the game and puts them all within easy access in RuNet, it is  rather a goodie than negative. So now the reality is that despite the fact that most Russian gamers are ready to buy the game at the store, but they would rather not play it at all, if they can not play it for free.
PS : if you are able to understand something of my explanation, I will be surprised. Like the fact that you have not deleted the post about piracy.

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#16 2013-09-20 19:41:50

Blarget2
Beta Tester
Registered: 2013-08-14
Posts: 25

Re: billing model?

I understand the sharing mentality. But the fact is, they can not reliably ship the game on a disk. That is unreasonable for a indie dev. The problem is the antis copyright movement is the strongest in Russia. Don't get me wrong, I understand the mentality and why it exists, the problem is it stifens small developers from giving you good content. If you prefer donation ware, I am sure the devs would be happy for any donations they receive from the Russian gamers(hint hint set up a donation button on the front page possibly).

edit: I am not saying encourage the Russians for hacking your game, all I am saying is if it's inevitable, set up a system so that you can receive compensation in some way shape or form so you don't get completely screwed over by Russian pirates. I think donations would be the best approach so that way you can see how much they are comfortable with giving money to a indie dev for.providing such an awesome game.

Last edited by Blarget2 (2013-09-20 19:47:56)

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