Talon Game

Refractory Studios

You are not logged in.

Announcement

Version 1.2 released; new game mode, new map, misc improvements

#1 2014-01-12 15:04:29

Smaragdadler
Member
From: Thuringia
Registered: 2013-12-26
Posts: 42

Questions and suggestions from German players

Hallo Scott,
on  descentforum.de there is a discussion about Talon.

http://www.descentforum.de/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5003

I collected some points brought up and list it here in short English translation for you:

- won Anarchy matches don't get count in player statistics
- please give us details about exact size of hitboxes on ships and exact damage points of each weapon against shields and hull armor
- to wait one minute after each match before next game starts feels too long
- how does collecting of weapons and ammunition/rockets of destroyed opponents work exactly
- is there a way to change ships/weapon loadout with joystick or keyboard and not with mouse
- how about predefined ship/weapon configurations per key-press
- the list of active online games constantly changes for lowest ping, this leads often to miss-clicking
- would be nice to see actual ping of other players
- a possibility to vote for Bot outkicks from a server
- a possibility to switch off 'windows'-key on keyboard
- a possibility to switch off "xyz killed z" massages
- replays seem to get always recorded, if switched on in player options, but there is also F6 and F7 for 'demo' recording. How this corresponds with each other? Also, when all replays get deleted manually in the recordings folder - replays get still listed and lead to a crash when one tries to play them.

Last edited by Smaragdadler (2014-01-12 15:23:57)

Offline

#2 2014-01-12 21:59:29

sdfgeoff
Beta Tester
Registered: 2013-09-27
Posts: 103
Website

Re: Questions and suggestions from German players

Some comments on them. some with answers:

exact damage points of each weapon against shields and hull armor

I don't think there's any such thing. As your shield gets weaker, more damage gets taken on the hull. So the weapons have a fixed damage, and it you've got 100% shield, it's all taken on the shield. If you've got 50% shield, then half of the damage is taken on the shield, half on the hull and so on. There are exceptions like the autocanon, which I think ignores the shield altogether?

to wait one minute after each match before next game starts feels too long

+1
30 seconds (or maybe even 15) would be much better.
Also, occasionally I seem to have to wait 60 seconds twice or three times. May just be my high ping causing problems.

how does collecting of weapons and ammunition/rockets of destroyed opponents work exactly

When a player dies, they drop some of their remaining weapons as a powerup. When you fly into it, you can collect them if:
- You have that weapon, and it needs a top up
- You have an empty weapon slot (eg you ran out, or you ejected it)

is there a way to change ships/weapon loadout with joystick or keyboard and not with mouse

Yep, under options it's the ones 'switch guns' and 'switch missile' You can bind any key/button to these.

how about predefined ship/weapon configurations per key-press

This would be quite nice, even just two loadouts to select from before the game starts. Something like 'indoor' and 'outdoor.' But either you've got to remember to select the right loadout, or you've got to remember to change what you've got, so I'm not sure there's really an advantage.

- the list of active online games constantly changes for lowest ping, this leads often to miss-clicking
- would be nice to see actual ping of other players

Agreed. I think if the servers just stay in order of ping when you first looked at them.

a possibility to vote for Bot outkicks from a server

Not sure how this would work, as 99% of the time, another bot will join in it's place. And there's very little difference between bots.

- a possibility to switch off 'windows'-key on keyboard

On windows 8.1, the windows key is disabled when the game is in fullscreen mode. What OS are you using?

- a possibility to switch off "xyz killed z" massages

I don't know, what else do you want it to display? Besides, it's quite cool to see what you were killed with if something surprises you.


----------------------
Also, ask Realizer if there's any particular D3 level he would like me to replicate in Talon. No guarantees though. (Post #2 in that thread)

Last edited by sdfgeoff (2014-01-12 22:19:14)

Offline

#3 2014-01-12 22:29:10

Smaragdadler
Member
From: Thuringia
Registered: 2013-12-26
Posts: 42

Re: Questions and suggestions from German players

Thank you for the answers sdfgeoff.
These are not my questions, I just collected and translated these questions/suggestions from the German thread.

About:

- the list of active online games constantly changes for lowest ping, this leads often to miss-clicking

Here we already found a solution:
- the list can be ordered by clicking on Name/CurrentMap/Players/Ping on top

by default it is sorted by lowest ping, that is the reason why it is jumping constantly.

how about predefined ship/weapon configurations per key-press

This would be quite nice, even just two loadouts to select from before the game starts. Something like 'indoor' and 'outdoor.' But either you've got to remember to select the right loadout, or you've got to remember to change what you've got, so I'm not sure there's really an advantage.

There is also a solution for this, by just creating different profiles.

Last edited by Smaragdadler (2014-01-12 22:35:16)

Offline

#4 2014-01-13 07:44:51

Scott
Refractory Studios
Registered: 2012-08-07
Posts: 454
Website

Re: Questions and suggestions from German players

- won Anarchy matches don't get count in player statistics

You're right, they don't. Talon was designed to be a team game. Anarchy came later, and the stat gathering still needs to be updated accordingly.

- please give us details about exact size of hitboxes on ships and exact damage points of each weapon against shields and hull armor

The hitboxes aren't boxes, they are convex volumes of arbitrary shape, designed to fit snugly around the hull. example

This same collision volume is used for ship-ship, ship-wall, and ship-weapon collisions.

sdfgeoff is correct in his explanation of the shield and hull damage. Except that the Autocannon is not an exception. It has to get through the shield just the same as anything else; it's just that weapons with a high rate of fire are more effective at damaging the hull because repeated strikes come quick and don't allow the shield a chance to recharge to 100%.

So there is not a separate weapon damage value for the shield and hull. I can give you the damage values for each weapon, but again, it's not that simple. Each projectile has a maximum damage potential, but it won't necessarily yield max damage on every hit. There are a number of factors including the angle and position of the strike and the velocity of the projectile relative to the target that all modulate the damage done by a projectile hit. A projectile that strikes dead center at high relative speed does more damage than a "glancing blow" that strikes at the periphery. So it's not as simple as "hit or no hit"; good aim matters.

- to wait one minute after each match before next game starts feels too long

Noted. Ideally I would like the game to restart much faster, while still allowing players to linger on the stats and scores screens as long as they like... but it's non-trivial to implement. I will look into it, however.

- how does collecting of weapons and ammunition/rockets of destroyed opponents work exactly

sdfgeoff got it.

- is there a way to change ships/weapon loadout with joystick or keyboard and not with mouse

In the Control binding options, there is a binding for "use weapon x". Bind those commands to something, they serve not only to activate the weapon if you have it available, but also to switch available weapons when reloading. (Which reminds me that I still have to update those commands for the new weapons... oops!)

- how about predefined ship/weapon configurations per key-press

I'm not sure how I would implement that, but it is an interesting idea. I will consider it when I have some time.

- the list of active online games constantly changes for lowest ping, this leads often to miss-clicking

geoff is right, the list auto-sorts by Ping by default. Click a column header to sort by that column. (Note to self: change the default to sort by Players).

- would be nice to see actual ping of other players

That would require the server to send that data out to each of the clients. Not a big deal, but I don't like sending more data than is necessary, and it's not critical to gameplay that you know what your opponents ping is. Still, I will consider it.

- a possibility to vote for Bot outkicks from a server

Voting to kick a player is a feature I have wanted to have for a while. If/when I get to that, you will be able to vote to kick a bot as well; although as sdf said, there isn't much difference between the bots, so there isn't much point to kicking them.

- a possibility to switch off 'windows'-key on keyboard

The Windows key should be disabled in all Windows versions while playing Talon. I "fixed" that a while back. At least I thought I did.

- a possibility to switch off "xyz killed z" massages

It could be done. I can add it to my list, but it will be low priority.

- replays seem to get always recorded, if switched on in player options,

Yes, that is how it works.

but there is also F6 and F7 for 'demo' recording. How this corresponds with each other?

It probably should say "replay", not "demo". It gives manual control for starting and stopping the replay recording.

Also, when all replays get deleted manually in the recordings folder - replays get still listed and lead to a crash when one tries to play them.

Are you deleting both the .rec and .info files?

Regardless, it should not cause a crash. I will put that on the bug list.

...

Ah, I see you found the click-to-sort-by column headers already. Ok.

And yes, I suppose creating different profiles for different ship loadouts would work. I should implement a "copy profile" button so that you would not have to redo all your key bindings.

Offline

#5 2014-01-13 12:32:53

Smaragdadler
Member
From: Thuringia
Registered: 2013-12-26
Posts: 42

Re: Questions and suggestions from German players

Thank you very much for the fast answers Scott. I've already put a translation in the Talon-Thread http://www.descentforum.de/forum/viewto … c&start=20

Just a short additional question from me:

Scott wrote:

The hitboxes aren't boxes, they are convex volumes of arbitrary shape, designed to fit snugly around the hull.

This same collision volume is used for ship-ship, ship-wall, and ship-weapon collisions.

Ship-wall collisions seems to make no damage, I guess this is intended.
Not sure about ship-ship.

But I think it would be nice to have this, maybe with an Server-Option to switch it off.
It should be not very much and also depending on Shield Capacity, Speed and impact angle.
To smash frontal into a wall with AB should not be a good idea. Also scratching along walls to often. Sparrow should be most prone to this and Hydra most less.

The idea behind this is that it should not only be advantageous to aim exactly, but also to have good flying skills. It would also make the choice between Sparrow on the one end and the Hydra on the other more interesting on cramped maps like Warehouse.

Last edited by Smaragdadler (2014-01-13 12:40:12)

Offline

#6 2014-01-13 13:39:05

Scott
Refractory Studios
Registered: 2012-08-07
Posts: 454
Website

Re: Questions and suggestions from German players

I agree with you. Actually, there used to be wall collision damage, and it worked pretty much as you describe. I liked it precisely because I thought it encouraged good flying; or rather, discouraged bad flying. The problem was that people found it confusing that the damage caused the same shield hit effects as weapons impact, so I removed it.

By the way, thank you for taking the time to compile this feedback and post it here. That looks like a very interesting thread on descentforum.de, and I enjoyed [trying to] read some of it, but it is too effortful to decipher what Google Translate gives. So I appreciate your efforts in compiling it here for me.

Last edited by Scott (2014-01-13 13:44:00)

Offline

#7 2014-01-13 14:01:02

VEX-Boogie
Beta Tester
From: Germany
Registered: 2013-09-27
Posts: 37

Re: Questions and suggestions from German players

Is it possible to activate wall damage with its own sound and visual effects? You could also set the speed at which damage occurs higher, so it won't be annoying but also more realistic. Full speed crash into asteroid, no damage?

Offline

#8 2014-01-13 14:54:25

Aga
Rookie Member
Registered: 2014-01-13
Posts: 13

Re: Questions and suggestions from German players

Hi,

I am using Win7 Home and the Windows key is not disabled. (Dell Laptop - 2*2.5Ghz - 4Gb Ram and Nvidia NVS135M Graphiccard onboeard)

I found one minor "bug": If I start Talon -> go to the Active Game -> sort all games based to the name -> It is interesting, that the kind of Game change every 5-10 second (Anarchy -> Teamdeath or ...) - It seems that this screen is updated with "standard" anarchy mode before request the server which mode is really used (?)

As an "Oldtimer" (54yrs) and around 18yrs D1/2/3 experience it is really great to see Talon in such a great quality. But for me I will not use any outdoor level and be seldom in Team Games - Anarchy is the one I like - maybe capture the flag or what else too. But it depends on how crowded the server will be after official release

(one more: I downloaded Talon -> started the game -> try to go to one server -> only BLACK screen --- second start of Talon -> Patch 1.0.1 was offered -> afterwards everything wents fine)

(one more: Reduce quality within option menu to 16Bits lets Talon not starting afterwards -> I must switch back to 32Bits -> maybe this depend on my Nvidia mobile Graphic chip?)

(one more: please indicate, when a missile will be coming from left or right area - it may help to prevent from shooting the walls or ... - I have the feeling, that it is ...)

(as "oldtimer" I do not like this music smile Could I create an own OGG file with my music, which I like? smile )

-- Great Scott - nice to see u once in a game - it was my 2nd or 3rd round in Talon and first after beeing "dead" on gaming


--
Social networks - I hate them -

Offline

#9 2014-01-13 21:29:03

sdfgeoff
Beta Tester
Registered: 2013-09-27
Posts: 103
Website

Re: Questions and suggestions from German players

(one more: please indicate, when a missile will be coming from left or right area - it may help to prevent from shooting the walls or ... - I have the feeling, that it is ...)

There's a little yellow triangle on the HUD that indicates this.

Offline

#10 2014-01-15 02:00:08

Scott
Refractory Studios
Registered: 2012-08-07
Posts: 454
Website

Re: Questions and suggestions from German players

VEX-Boogie wrote:

Is it possible to activate wall damage with its own sound and visual effects?

Possible, yes, but not easy.

You could also set the speed at which damage occurs higher, so it won't be annoying but also more realistic. Full speed crash into asteroid, no damage?

I am going to try re-enabling collision damage, but as you have suggested I have set the threshold higher. Incidental contact with walls should not cause damage now, but a full speed crash will. We'll see how that goes.

Aga wrote:

I am using Win7 Home and the Windows key is not disabled.

Well that is curious. It should be disabled, and on my Win7 Home system it is (in the full version, not the demo, the Windows key fix was added after the demo was released). The only possible explanation I can think of is if the VK code for the windows key is different on the German keyboard... but I don't think it is.

It is interesting, that the kind of Game change every 5-10 second (Anarchy -> Teamdeath or ...) - It seems that this screen is updated with "standard" anarchy mode before request the server which mode is really used (?)

Yes, Anarchy is mode 0, thus it gets displayed when the mode parameter has not been filled in yet. I have improved the way that the server info box is handled now, so this should not be a problem after the next patch.

(one more: I downloaded Talon -> started the game -> try to go to one server -> only BLACK screen --- second start of Talon -> Patch 1.0.1 was offered -> afterwards everything wents fine)

Yes, that was a bug addressed in the 1.0.1 patch. I will be updating the full installer soon.

(one more: Reduce quality within option menu to 16Bits lets Talon not starting afterwards -> I must switch back to 32Bits -> maybe this depend on my Nvidia mobile Graphic chip?)

I would guess that it is a bug in the graphic drivers; they probably don't test much with 16 bit color anymore. Or it could be that the laptop display just doesn't support 16 bit color.

(one more: please indicate, when a missile will be coming

As sdfgeoff mentioned, look for the yellow triangles on the radar ring. Missiles with an active lock on your ship are get targeting brackets and directional indicators just as ships do, but they are colored yellow.

(as "oldtimer" I do not like this music smile Could I create an own OGG file with my music, which I like? smile )

You are the second person now to request the ability to drop in your own music tracks. I will look into adding that ability.

Great Scott - nice to see u once in a game - it was my 2nd or 3rd round in Talon and first after beeing "dead" on gaming

I'm glad you found it compelling enough to come out of retirement. smile Stick around, I'm sure we'll meet again.

Offline

#11 2014-01-15 17:54:23

Do_Checkor
Beta Tester
From: Germany
Registered: 2013-09-27
Posts: 156
Website

Re: Questions and suggestions from German players

Another thing from my end - which is related:

In the server list, when I click on one server, it takes a long time until the server properties appear. I sugeest to retrieve all values from the tracker server and cache them to only update when they are changed. Also: When I click a server and the server property values don't appear, sometimes the focus still changes to a different server. I know you said you've already put something in for the next patch, so if this post is obsolete, I never posted it ;-)

Offline

#12 2014-01-15 19:36:46

VEX-Munk
Beta Tester
Registered: 2013-10-13
Posts: 45

Re: Questions and suggestions from German players

I would like to add a comment about the bots, more specifically about the dynamical number of bots.

Let's say you host a 6 player game, with settings of "0 - 2 bots". As far as I understand it, for 1-4 (human) players there will be 2 bots, for 5 players there will be 1 bot, and for 6 players there will be no bot.

Certainly most players more enjoy the game versus (human) players than bots, and I find it quite disappointing when a bot interrupts a larger fight between players, i.e. the bots don't leave the server early enough when there are enough players playing.


Suppose you like a level, with ideal amount of players to be 4. However you open it for 6 as it is still playable with 6 players. Making the setting "0 - 2 bots" you never play alone, yet if there are 4 human players there are also 2 bots left, you would somehow like to kick the bots to make a better game.

What I would suggest: Keep the "0 - N bots" setting, but handle it differently. Place N bots when a single player is playing, but remove one bot for each player joining. This way you could host the above 6 player game with "0 - 3 bots", and always play with 3 opponents unless they are all human, in which case you would allow more.

Offline

#13 2014-01-15 20:13:36

Scott
Refractory Studios
Registered: 2012-08-07
Posts: 454
Website

Re: Questions and suggestions from German players

VEX-Munk wrote:

What I would suggest: Keep the "0 - N bots" setting, but handle it differently.

I like that idea. I like it a lot.
It's a better solution than the one that we've got.

I never did like it, the way that it was.
I shall change it now; I'll do it because,

You made a good case, you argued it well.
I like your solution. I'm pleased, can you tell?

Now I'm talking in rhyme, for no real reason.
Could be lack of sleep, or the moon, or the season.

Whatever the case, it's off to the code.
I shall make it work now, with the bots, as you've told.

And all shall be happy, as soon as I stop,
With the stupid rhymes and just get back to work.

tongue

Also: When I click a server and the server property values don't appear, sometimes the focus still changes to a different server.

The changes I made should make the info box behave better, let's wait and see how it works for you after the next patch. As for the selection changing, I really don't know. That shouldn't happen. But again, let's re-address that after the next update.

Offline

#14 2014-01-15 20:37:35

Do_Checkor
Beta Tester
From: Germany
Registered: 2013-09-27
Posts: 156
Website

Re: Questions and suggestions from German players

Moon. Only a couple of hours, and we'll be safe again! thanks for the laugh smile

Offline

#15 2014-01-16 11:50:58

Aga
Rookie Member
Registered: 2014-01-13
Posts: 13

Re: Questions and suggestions from German players

Well,

the bug with the windows key disappear - good.
Switch to 16Bit - other programs I use are able to do this smooth (like "Jazz Rabbit" ...) - that may be a small bug in Talon - but for sure 32bit is real good to play.
"little" yellow ... -> hey there are soooo many "little" arrows that I cannot see everything on my big screen without go up and down with my head smile  I will have a look and hope it helps...

BTW: The new camera is really small and not very helpful - please locate this camera in the left bottom area and put a small border around - the same for the Talkmessages in the lower right area - everything what changes during the game (I mean Info´s, Talks, ... should be in the lower part of the screen - and please please let have a possibility to change the colour / size of the talk messages and ... As retired Gamer i need Glasses now and need to have better visibility smile

And yes - i do not need music in the background - I reduced everthing to the lowest possibility to have a game feeling and not a graphic overkill feeling which I do not need smile

Have fun and great to talk to you Scott in the new level ("inactivity item")

AgA


--
Social networks - I hate them -

Offline

#16 2014-01-16 20:25:26

VEX-Munk
Beta Tester
Registered: 2013-10-13
Posts: 45

Re: Questions and suggestions from German players

Scott wrote:

With the stupid rhymes and just get back to work.

Nice vibes ... I don't know what you take, but let's hope it is legal tongue

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB 1.5.9