Talon Game

Refractory Studios

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Version 1.2 released; new game mode, new map, misc improvements

#1 2013-11-07 23:11:24

VEX-Munk
Beta Tester
Registered: 2013-10-13
Posts: 45

Gameplay improvements ?

In our test games we think that the motivation while playing is quite low. I mean you kill some guy (for example in a open space game), and all you need to think about is getting to the base and refill your weapons.

How about some motivation ? On a kill you get the remaining weapons of your victim transferred to your ship. This way one could in principle keep a sustainable amount of ammunition without much refill.

How about a cloaking penalty consuming shields ? This way you can't sneak away on low shields and run to your base. You can try to escape, but you would soon need to decloak.

Just a few ideas. What do you guys think ?

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#2 2013-11-08 00:11:18

Do_Checkor
Beta Tester
From: Germany
Registered: 2013-09-27
Posts: 159
Website

Re: Gameplay improvements ?

http://forum.talongame.com/viewtopic.php?id=88 --> #28

So this is a "x2" but I remember I heard this idea has already been considered (by Scott).

Thanks smile

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#3 2013-11-08 18:05:47

VEX-Ben
Beta Tester
From: Germany, Aachen
Registered: 2013-09-28
Posts: 83

Re: Gameplay improvements ?

The problem I see is that new players (newbies) wont see a success soon enough befor they get frustrated or fed up. Some fights just take too long until you see progress or the guy you just "worked" on vanishes into nothing (invisable) and your goal with it. My frustration limit is very high but i dont think this is the same with young players, but we need young players to keep this game alive.

Last edited by VEX-Ben (2013-11-08 22:50:53)

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#4 2013-11-08 19:54:07

Do_Checkor
Beta Tester
From: Germany
Registered: 2013-09-27
Posts: 159
Website

Re: Gameplay improvements ?

I was thinking that some skill level might really make sense. I mean: Talon would become quite boring / messed up if you really got into it after some time. Imagine one year of active online gaming in Talon with weapons even a noob could kill opponents with. A pro would get a newbie down in 2 seconds.

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#5 2013-11-09 00:16:33

VEX-Munk
Beta Tester
Registered: 2013-10-13
Posts: 45

Re: Gameplay improvements ?

Do_Checkor wrote:

--> #28

Sorry, it's not about powerups. Powerups don't make much sense in the open space. Fights are usually over long ranges, and you will never get them before someone else does.

The indoor feeling of the game is great, but the outdoor gameplay feels quite boring for me.

The usual mode is: find your next mark. Decloak. Shoot over long ranges at the printed point of aim, fly some circles or figures, and hope to hit more often than your opponent. If you died, respawn. If you killed, cloak again and fly to the next recharging station. Rinse and repeat.

During fight, there is basically no other interaction with the environment or with other players.

I might be biased as I've never played in the space combat genre (X-wing oder Freespace or the like). But for me the cloak needs to be "expensive" in use, either by slowness in movement or by shield consumption (I would prefer the latter).



Maybe as a new gameplay idea, the active cloak (being a complex quantum-techno-something device) adds up a radiation level in the ship. Thats not that serious as you could cloak as long as you like. But in order to recharge your shields or weapons you must first complete a decontaminate procedure at the repair/recharge platforms. I.e. the more often and longer you use your cloak, the longer you have to sit on the "pot".

Last edited by VEX-Munk (2013-11-09 00:17:26)

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#6 2013-11-09 02:48:29

Scott
Refractory Studios
Registered: 2012-08-07
Posts: 463
Website

Re: Gameplay improvements ?

VEX-Munk wrote:

The usual mode is: find your next mark. Decloak. Shoot over long ranges at the printed point of aim, fly some circles or figures, and hope to hit more often than your opponent. If you died, respawn. If you killed, cloak again and fly to the next recharging station. Rinse and repeat.

You can play like that if you wish, there's nothing stopping you. But if this type of long-distance sniping play bores you, then I suggest that you simply don't do it. Close the distance and get in the fight. It's your choice. I'll grant you that a game where everyone is trying to stay away from other ships and snipe from a distance would be pretty boring, but it is player choice. This can happen in any game with large playfields. There are, however already a number of factors in place in Talon to mitigate this problem. For starters, forward is faster than reverse, so a player determined to close in on a sniper is going to be able to. Second, limited ammunition means that eventually, you will have to come to a base to rearm. Furthermore, homing weapons and more powerful guns have limited range; thus players that stay out of the battle and snipe from afar will have a harder time building up their score. Note that you gain points for kills, but you don't loose them for dying. If you want to rank up on the scoreboard, get in and fight, even if it means dying more often.

Sorry, it's not about powerups. Powerups don't make much sense in the open space. Fights are usually over long ranges, and you will never get them before someone else does.

Thus you have an incentive to be there, part of the action, in the fight, instead of sniping from a distance. If you aren't there in the battle, you don't get to claim the prize. Powerups are in fact a good mechanic to combat the stand-off strategy which you complain is boring. Imagine instead what happens if scoring a kill instantly refills your weapons. Now you can snipe indefinitely without ever needing to come in to rearm. That is not a mechanic I wish to introduce to the game, as it would incentivize sniping instead of dogfighting.

---

It's worth mentioning also that open space maps are going to be boring with a low number of players, and there is nothing that can be done about that. Big, open space maps are just better with large groups of players. Small groups should play in smaller maps.

I might be biased as I've never played in the space combat genre (X-wing oder Freespace or the like). But for me the cloak needs to be "expensive" in use, either by slowness in movement or by shield consumption (I would prefer the latter).

The latest patch adds a cloak-limiting mechanic. It does not compromise the ship in any way, apart from limiting the duration of the cloak. I think this will be sufficient when coupled with the other anti-cloak weapons that have already been added. Also, the cloak already does reduce your forward speed, since it suppresses the afterburner.

I'm not sold on the idea of tying the cloak to the shields. The cloak exists because in outdoor combat there is nowhere to hide, nowhere to escape. The cloak is supposed to be a lifeline. It is supposed to provide an option to players who are trying to escape from a fight they are losing. Tying the cloak to the shield power, in addition to the other anti-cloak systems already in place, I think would be too much. Also, the fact that the shields light up when hit and expose your position under cloak not only looks cool, but provides a subtle anti-cloak mechanic in itself.

The cloak is a difficult thing to balance, but I think it's actually pretty good as it is now. There are many disadvantages to using the cloak, and many ways to defeat it. Still, if you choose to use it to hide and stay out of trouble, you can. But that is a choice. As with sniping from a distance, if you find flying around under cloak too boring, don't do it. You can be as engaged, or disengaged from the game as you choose to be.

Maybe as a new gameplay idea, the active cloak (being a complex quantum-techno-something device) adds up a radiation level in the ship. Thats not that serious as you could cloak as long as you like. But in order to recharge your shields or weapons you must first complete a decontaminate procedure at the repair/recharge platforms. I.e. the more often and longer you use your cloak, the longer you have to sit on the "pot".

This is an interesting idea. For now, though, I have recently added a number of anti-cloak system and mechanics, and I want to give it some time and testing before I consider making additional changes.

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