Talon Game

Refractory Studios

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Version 1.2 released; new game mode, new map, misc improvements

#1 2013-12-27 09:46:16

Smaragdadler
Member
From: Thuringia
Registered: 2013-12-26
Posts: 42

Colored name tags + rear/missile view

I had my first online games against human opponents yesterday and it was a great experience.
I really like how this game plays and hope it get's much attention with lots of players in the future. Big applause to Scott!

Some features I would like to see:

- different color coded name tags for bots, humans and last kill (revenge bonus)

- rear view + missile view (as little monitors and/or full screen per key press)
- cloaked optical missile-drone (makes no damage, can only be seen while ships are cloaked,
  sends view on missile monitor)

- some capture-the-flag mode

- more maps of course smile

Last edited by Smaragdadler (2014-01-03 04:15:53)

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#2 2013-12-29 20:20:20

Scott
Refractory Studios
Registered: 2012-08-07
Posts: 461
Website

Re: Colored name tags + rear/missile view

Thank you Smaragdadler, I'm glad you're having fun.

The colored tags for bots is a good idea. I am always cautious when introducing new colors, as it would be easy to go overboard and make the HUD a visually confusing mess... but the bots should be more easily identifiable. Perhaps if they were colored gray instead of white?

Color coding the last person to kill you is a bit more complicated, just because the clients currently do not have that information, so this will require exchanging some additional data and I will have to work out the best mechanism to handle that. It is a good idea, though. I'm thinking that a yellow name tag might be appropriate here.

A Rear View feature has been requested a few times. I'm considering it, although I haven't worked out how I would integrate it into the current HUD; fullscreen-on-keypress would solve that, though.

Missile view is something I have not considered at all, probably because I never used them in Descent. I see them as fun toys, but I never found them to be particularly useful in multiplayer. By the time you position yourself to attack the ship which you have spotted with the camera, he's no longer there. Plus while you're watching the remote camera, you're taking your eyes off what's immediately around you, which is often a lethal mistake. That's not to say I won't entertain the idea. We can talk about it, I'm just not rushing to put it on the feature list quite yet.

Capture The Flag mode is on the list.

Thanks for sharing the ideas smile I appreciate all feedback and suggestions.

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#3 2013-12-30 08:35:32

Smaragdadler
Member
From: Thuringia
Registered: 2013-12-26
Posts: 42

Re: Colored name tags + rear/missile view

Scott wrote:

... but the bots should be more easily identifiable. Perhaps if they were colored gray instead of white?

That would be perfect.

Color coding the last person to kill you ... It is a good idea, though. I'm thinking that a yellow name tag might be appropriate here.

Again would be perfect, but the 'killer' should also have his last 'victim' colored - in pink maybe.
I think some Unreal Tournament mod had this. One gets extra points for kill-streaks on the same player coupled with additional increasing point bonuses for culminating kill-revenge-cycles between two particular players.

A Rear View feature ... fullscreen-on-keypress would solve that, though.

This exactly. To have it in the HUD would be nice, but would be switched off to get more FPS anyway.

Missile view ... I never found them to be particularly useful in multiplayer. By the time you position yourself to attack the ship which you have spotted with the camera, he's no longer there. Plus while you're watching the remote camera, you're taking your eyes off what's immediately around you, which is often a lethal mistake.

Missile view is NOT for 'hunting' - this means, you don't 'follow' the missile.
It's all about intel-gathering for situational awareness on maps like warehouse and bunker. To have some extra pair of eyes going a different path to another spot at the same time.
You shoot the missile down this hallway/direction - while heading for another completely.
If you know the map layout by heart and all the tricks and habits of your opponents - even an empty hallway/room on your missile view can tell much about what is directly behind the corner ahead of your actual position... smile

Last edited by Smaragdadler (2013-12-30 09:12:22)

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#4 2013-12-30 10:23:52

VEX-Boogie
Beta Tester
From: Germany
Registered: 2013-09-27
Posts: 37

Re: Colored name tags + rear/missile view

@colored victim etc. : I think it should be a different mod, especially when the score is depending on that. Otherwise i don't think it's neccessary, why do you want to chase anyone in the game?

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#5 2013-12-30 11:31:34

Smaragdadler
Member
From: Thuringia
Registered: 2013-12-26
Posts: 42

Re: Colored name tags + rear/missile view

The problem I see with anarchy-mode in non-open maps (like Warehouse and especially Bunker) as it is now:

To get a big score, one just has to wait cloaked till a fight between other players (especially bots!) in a big room starts,  and then spam the room from outside with homing seeker missiles.
Sneak away, reload, repeat ... ad nauseam.

Last edited by Smaragdadler (2013-12-30 11:50:45)

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#6 2013-12-30 17:12:48

CommandoRash
Member
From: Clarksville, TN
Registered: 2013-11-12
Posts: 96

Re: Colored name tags + rear/missile view

Smaragdadler wrote:

The problem I see with anarchy-mode in non-open maps (like Warehouse and especially Bunker) as it is now:

To get a big score, one just has to wait cloaked till a fight between other players (especially bots!) in a big room starts,  and then spam the room from outside with homing seeker missiles.
Sneak away, reload, repeat ... ad nauseam.

That's why I like the open maps, but what you're talking about is really just a strategy, and if I was playing you, I would cloak, get out of the fight and fly up close to u and launch a buster missle lol

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#7 2013-12-30 18:38:41

Smaragdadler
Member
From: Thuringia
Registered: 2013-12-26
Posts: 42

Re: Colored name tags + rear/missile view

CommandoRash wrote:

... if I was playing you, I would cloak, get out of the fight and fly up close to u and launch a buster missle lol

That's why I requested a rear view... wink
...and a rule modification to make chasing a particular opponent worthwhile.

But to make it a new mode apart from anarchy is a god idea, let's call it "Gladiator"-mode.
It's like "Anarchy" a Deathmatch, but with increasing culminative revenge boni. To lead the score board one has to think about and constantly adjust who is to shoot and who is to spare (or even help). Breaking the kill-streaks of all others players, that's it what it would be about.

About full screen rear view:
Would be cool, if this would get some extra visual effect (like the cloak modus) to make it look like a monitor-view. Why? Because it would be consistent with the way the Talon-Ships are constructed. The pilots can not just turn their heads to look behind in it.

When I think about it, ... next logical step would be to talk about side (and up and down) views + cockpit-views.

Last edited by Smaragdadler (2013-12-30 19:19:59)

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#8 2013-12-30 19:51:48

CommandoRash
Member
From: Clarksville, TN
Registered: 2013-11-12
Posts: 96

Re: Colored name tags + rear/missile view

Thats kinda in line with something I suggested to Scott the other day. Why not have the last person that killed you, highlighted automatically, kinda the way the f key works. It should be a different color though.

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#9 2013-12-30 20:14:18

Grendel
Beta Tester
From: Corvallis, OR USA
Registered: 2013-09-21
Posts: 150
Website

Re: Colored name tags + rear/missile view

Smaragdadler wrote:
CommandoRash wrote:

... if I was playing you, I would cloak, get out of the fight and fly up close to u and launch a buster missle lol

That's why I requested a rear view... wink

Listen for cloaked ships, watch the enemy direction arrows, or go cloaked yourself. And tag him w/ a tracker missile. tongue

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#10 2013-12-30 20:43:30

Scott
Refractory Studios
Registered: 2012-08-07
Posts: 461
Website

Re: Colored name tags + rear/missile view

Smaragdadler wrote:

Missile view is NOT for 'hunting' - ... To have some extra pair of eyes going a different path to another spot at the same time.... - even an empty hallway/room on your missile view can tell much about what is directly behind the corner ahead of your actual position...

Interesting. If you can manage that much information, and you don't mind sacrificing a missile to view a potentially empty hallway, yeah, that is certainly a way to utilize them.

It's not that I have a problem with missile cameras, but there are still two things which concern me:

1. How much copying from Descent is too much copying from Descent. Descent is a great game, and it did many things right. I "borrowed" many ideas from Descent, because I wanted a good 6dof game, and Descent (to my mind) defines the genre and sets the bar for that type of game. Some things I copied just because they were too good to not have. That said however, Talon is not a Descent clone. That was never my intent. In keeping with that, I want to incorporate ideas from Descent when they benefit the game, not just because they were in Descent. So the question here is: are missile cameras important enough to the gameplay in Talon? I'm not sure yet.

2. It is the nature of the network system in Torque that each client gets one camera object through which to view the world. This idea is integral to the way in which network optimization works. If I were to simply add a secondary camera object, what it sees would not necessarily be an accurate representation of what is actually happening there, because the server does not care to keep the client well-informed about the objects that are not immediately visible to the client's defined camera object. At this point I cannot guess how much work would be involved in extending the system to support multiple camera objects per-client.

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#11 2013-12-30 20:51:06

Scott
Refractory Studios
Registered: 2012-08-07
Posts: 461
Website

Re: Colored name tags + rear/missile view

Grendel wrote:

And tag him w/ a tracker missile. tongue

Tracker Missiles are a great way to draw attention to a particular player, and a good way to suggest that a player who is engaged in any tactics which annoy the other players should become a priority target!

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#12 2013-12-30 21:01:54

Smaragdadler
Member
From: Thuringia
Registered: 2013-12-26
Posts: 42

Re: Colored name tags + rear/missile view

Scott wrote:

...How much copying from Descent is too much copying from Descent...

I don't demand any of this. I just want to give some improvement ideas for discussion.

The real question is: What should Talon be in the end?

I see it this way:

Talon has real potential to become the benchmark in a special niche of multiplayer-shooters.
"Take the best from Descent-Multiplayer and Unreal Tournament and you get TALON!", that is where I'm heading.

But I have no idea about actual programm coding, the decision what is realizable and what not is yours of course. smile

Last edited by Smaragdadler (2013-12-30 21:06:03)

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#13 2013-12-30 22:19:01

Scott
Refractory Studios
Registered: 2012-08-07
Posts: 461
Website

Re: Colored name tags + rear/missile view

I just want to give some improvement ideas for discussion.

And I appreciate it! I didn't mean for that to sound like a criticism of your suggestion, just sharing the concerns on my mind. Making a game so very similar to another, wanting to re-capture the fun I had with Descent, yet trying to distinguish Talon as a game in its own right; this has been an ongoing struggle for me throughout development.

And yes, Unreal Tournament (and Battlefield) were also sources of inspiration. Also various flight and space sims that I loved when I was young. The hull armor + regenerative shield idea was inspired by Wing Commander: Privateer, although I'm sure other games have done it too. Landing to repair/rearm on the pads was a feature familiar to me from the Comanche/Werewolf helo games.

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#14 2013-12-31 00:33:14

VEX-Munk
Beta Tester
Registered: 2013-10-13
Posts: 45

Re: Colored name tags + rear/missile view

At least in Descent 3 tactics, if you want to know if someone is in a hall down the corridor, you just shoot a homing missile down. If it alters course as it locks on a target, you know someone is there.

I guess the same way the homing missiles in Talon could be used.

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